2h • General discussion
Who is in the right or wrong here?
I just had an argument with a ray peat guy. I was just trying to observe both sides and ask questions but he kept being ideologic. I got mad ofcourse because of the behavioral pattern I saw but I could have handled it better. But who is in the right or wrong here?
Here is the conversation:
This sounds like you need to have a talk with Aleks. He will help you with this. If I were you, I’d book a call with him and have him help you get back on track.
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• 14h
im gonna tey carnivroe for thirty days to see but I wanna hear both side of things to compare
What are your arguments for high sugae? Have you tried both low and high carbs
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• 12h
i’ve tried keto before and it fucked me up for years with hairloss, loss of morning wood, and horrible mental health problems.
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• 3h
Wow thats interesting, many people say the opposite.
What helped you?
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• 1h
a lot of guys with issues in the community are because they tried carnivore. It’s not optimal. Sure, if you go from a western died to carnivore, you’ll feel some relief.
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• 1h
i tried Ray peat approach. If I feel unreal on carnivore I see no reason to to back to animal based or Ray peat.
But if I don’t feel good after 30 days im gonna to back
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• 1h
25:46
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• 1h
for some the power never fades
Objectively people on Ray peat and carnivore have had the opposite experiences
I don’t get why Thats the case
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• 1h
like all the popular carnivore guys are switching to a Ray Peat style of eating.
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• 1h
I know. I have also seen animal based guys switch to carnivore and never feel better. They were on high carb.
That being said, if I dont feel good after 30 days, what do I do? What diet would you recommend in that case?
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• 1h
like 30 days is a short term switch. The problem with carnivore is that long term it causes problems.
I recommend a nutrition plan which upholds bioenergetic principles.
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• 1h
But there are many longterm carnivores that feel amazing so I wouldn’t say it’s always bad longterm
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• 1h
who do you have as an example?
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• 1h
I’ve talked to many people and have many friends so that’s mainly how I have come to my conclusions. Also Anthony chaffe and the many longterm carnivores he’s both interviewed and that I see on the comments
I don’t know why these wouldn’t be valuable to you but I understand that oncr you are convinced bt one approach everything else seems offending to your worldview or seems like Bs
But im here to look at both sides
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• 1h
I think you’re projecting how you feel. I just asked a question, because I’m curious.
I feel great with how I eat. So of course I’m biased. You’re the one with health issues.
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• 58m
ive had health issues with your approach. You got offended because I just told you that you aren’t always correcr and now youre you are projecting your bias by saying I feel bad and you feel great. Well, it didn’t work for me
And many people feel good too on carnivore so perhaps your apporach isn’t the only way is it?
I am trying to see what works best
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• 58m
Are you curious or do you get offended because of your bias??
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• 55m
why would I get offended? I feel great and I’ve seen a bioenergetic style of eating work for many, and now a lot of the carnivore guys are switching to my style of eating. I have the confidence of the right approach.
And you’re acting like I’m some noob to this. I’ve been doing this for 10+ years, worked with hundreds of clients + I’m certified in nutrition. I’ve tried all these fad diets, and they don’t work.
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• 53m
sure, I would be offended if my style of doing things didn’t work, and I was in a state of pride / authoritarianism and someone would present a different way and I would become extremely defensive.
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• 53m
there are people 30 years on carnivore saying the opposite with a lot pf evidence too. You have a bias and you feel great and so it’s hard to accept it may be dependent on the person thats why you would get offended.
And to be frank, I don’t know what to believe anymore because there are people like you on the other side saying the exact same things and with as much evidence
Maybe both are right ….
Lemme ask you this: where do you live, what kind of envoirment
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• 52m
I live in Europe. I’ve been living in Ireland, Netherlands and Germany.
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• 51m
Yes but you can also be offended if it does work and you feel like they are questioning because then you feel yours is the only way and they are questioning the truth. This is also what carnivores do. You need a bit more self awareness I think because carnivores are claiming the same things and with as much proof
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• 51m
Ok then I know the envoirment isn’t the deciding factor. Perhaps its genetics?
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• 50m
well definitely not genetic as I had issues. I had a receding hairline, DPDR, anxiety, high prolatin, like literally all the hypothyroid symptoms, and I reversed them.
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• 50m
Those issues are not generic. I am talking about some people reversing these things on carnivore and some on Ray peat diet.
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• 49m
perhaps the best fuel and what you feel best on depends on the person in question ?
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• 49m
why would I get offended if I feel good. It would be different if I had health issues.
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• 49m (edited)
I mean because you feel like someone is going against your worldview. If you felt bad you would be much more open and rethink and you wouldn’t feel yours is the only way
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• 48m
like different types of metabolisms are real. And cell respiration is the most pro metabolic one, and if you follow a protocol that downregulates that… it’s not optimal… and carnivore does that.
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• 47m
why would I rethink something that works, lol
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• 47m
Well thats one perspective…. Deterium depletion is real and it’s powerful
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• 47m
because it clearly doesn’t work for everyonr so now you get offended hearing this
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• 46m (edited)
Why would it be the most optimal if many many people feel so incredible for years on the other one? Don’t you fucking see it? You are doing the exact same thing carnivores are doing now man. Im just pointing it out
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• 46m
but it does work, most people don’t know how to apply it properly.
Most people watch Ray Peat videos for a day and start doing random things and then label it as it doesn’t work.
I’ve had coaches help me learn and apply things properly. Most guys are in a state of pride and rather do everything themselves.
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• 45m
Carnivores say the same thing and clearly that works out well. Again, dont you see it?
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• 45m
clearly people are adapted to different diets…. It has to be the case
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• 45m
what I see now is Carnivors switching to bioenergetics
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• 45m
Yeah ane I dont do it for a day I do it systematically
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• 45m
I see the opposite too. I’ve been consuming a lot of content and now trying both out.
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• 44m
do this, write your nutrition plan when you followed “my approach” + what supplement you took.
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• 44m
I mean supplements arent necessary for humans and if they are on your diet you’ve done something wrong.
How about you tell me EXACTLY what to eat, and I’ll try it out and evaluate? If your diet is as good as you claim
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• 43m
well you have no basis for what works because your health is bad.
Just send your nutrition plan.
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• 42m
Your answer to my question already shows me that you’re afraid. If you want the truth, you should send it and I can critique your plan.
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• 41m
This statement “I mean supplements arent necessary for humans and if they are on your diet you’ve done something wrong.”
Is already one reason why you are in your state.
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• 41m
well carnivores have reversed diseases and changes their energy for gpod
I am a very smart dude contrary to what you may believe and I have observed both side of things and looked into it deeply.
You are highly ignorant just because you feel good woth this approach.
I would give it a shot if you just tell me what to eat and you’ll see it’s not as good as you claim
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• 40m
Nope. If an animal has to use supplement what they are doing is wrong.
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• 40m
you just said that you followed my approach??? Can you send it to me.
You just publicly confessed that it doesn’t work and when I ask you what you did, you start deflecting.
You’re not credible.
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• 38m
“When the debate is lost, insults become the arguments of the loser.”
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• 38m
You are one to talk. See? You are getting offended and completely braindead and you stop listening. I’ve tried high carb Ray peat approach. It didn’t work. It didn’t give me energy. I’ve observed both arguments
Yet you are not willing to accept many people did the opposite and felt way better. You cannot admitt your approach may not work. Ignorance
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• 38m
yeah, can you stop jumping around and just send me your nutrition plan. I would love to help.
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• 37m
You are one to talk. You immediately insulted me and projected as soon as I said it may not work for everyone. Incredible
Then ignorance is insane. Maybe your brain would run better on ketones and you would behave better if you switched
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• 37m
you wouldn’t. You wanna preserve your ideology ypu dont want to help me
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• 37m
im sorry I joined this community. I guess carnivore wins because you have no credible arguments
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• 36m
maybe that’s what you do. But I’m actually here to help, just send your nutrition plan.
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• 35m
Thats not what I do. And if you truly were here to help you would not have offended me and tries to defend your approach and ignored the counter evidence. You are another ignorant person with low self awareness to understand what you are actually doing.
Mindfulness brother.
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• 35m
you just proved that you didn’t follow a bioenergetic style of eating. If you did, you would have no issue sending your plan.
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• 34m
nice projection. Like the members will read this discussion and they can conclude what happened here.
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• 34m
I think we don’t get anywhere discussing this. you’re saying a bunch of assumptions and assuming I did something wrong. Trll me your approach and I will see how well it matches. But it’s clearly not the only way and for many people not the best.
I don’t think we get anywhere arguing. You don’t really wanna help, you are more interested in defending your worldview
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• 34m
these members are biased towards your approach and will react the same way. You are the one projecting. Kind of manipulative
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• 32m
just send your nutrition plan, I’m honestly curious what you followed. You keep running away from sending it.
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• 32m
Kind of fun that Ray peat people are always the ignorant ones ignoring all counter evidence and arguing with people and saying they project. Never heard carnivores argue like that. This looks almost like vegans arguing
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• 31m (edited)
No I didn’t have a nutrition plan. I just decided to eat lots of fruit and followed a guy who felt amazinf on Ray peat diet
I don’t need a doctor.
I did lots of fruit and fruit till noon and also just tried not separatin from day.
I did animal foods but the bad was sweet fruit and some raw honey and even raw milk.
If this doesn’t work your approach won’t because it’s practically the same thing
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• 31m
what counter envidence 😂
You didn’t send anything.
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• 31m
yeah, im not surprised that you didn’t get results…
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• 30m
Random action, leads to random results.
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• 29m
like just be intellectually honest with me. If you showed me a proper nutrition plan, and it didnt work. I would admit my fault, by your just doing random things.
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• 29m
I haven’t sent anything. I just explained there are two side of the argument and you ignored me and immesiately start arguing. Im
Not even arguing for anyone im just saying therr are people on the other side claiming the opposite….. youre ignorant asf. That ignorance is crazy.
If you’re as healthy as you claim you should work on your internal state. It seems as tho ypu like to project your approach and ignore and then get angry when someone neutral says your argument does not hold ...
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• 29m
it’s not random. I followed Ray peats approach. Stop trying to defend your bullshit and assuming everyonr else is wrong. That is a serious pattern of narcissism and ignorance
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• 28m
it’s not, it’s just being honest. You just ate shinny Ray Peat foods and hoped it worked…
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• 21m
Some people, like you, have a suprisingly low amount of self awareness and high ignorance and do not even realize it, and are more interested in arguing and defending your world view than looking at things with an open mind and looking at the evidence we have, and then you claim that you do and start arguing with people looking at both sides and choosing evidence and projecting your world view and feelings instead of what is actually true and evident.
I guess this is part of ray p...
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• 19m
You can cancel the call if you want.
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• 18m
Matthew 7:20 (KJV):
“Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.”
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• 18m
let’s talk on the call.
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• 18m
religious beliefs that canot be proven... typical. Ofcourse you are religious. You just follow ideology and feelings, not evidence or logic. brainwashed all around, eh?
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• 17m
Sure, but if you are just going to ignore me, whats the point
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• 17m
why would I ignore you, lol.
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• 16m
Becuase you did in the enitre converastion. Answering and getting mad when I tell you the truth and then trying to project your ideology and explaining your approach is not the same thing as listening to me and understanding what I am saying.
You were ignorant Aleks
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• 16m
when did I get mad. You’re the one getting very emotional and triggered.
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• 15m
Again, ignorance. You got offended and started defending your ideology and discrediting me as soon as I told you the truth.
ignorance and ideology projection
You remind me of a guy called David that I know
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• 14m
I recommend that you relax and just re read the conversation.
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• 14m
You keep responding and trying to act like the emotionally superior person, classic sign of narcissim and manipultion, maybe even gaslightning to defend your ideology.
You will do everything you can to d defend your ideology.
This is classic ray peat cult behavior, but also my friend David was the same. He was towards other things but the same type of person.
I see the pattern here
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• 14m (edited)
You should do the same. But you do not seem to be that self aware.
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• 12m
I disagree. Throughout the conversation I’ve been trying to help you and understand you. I even offered that you can send your plan and I can see what’s going on. And you got extremely triggered and emotional.
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• 11m
I understand how it seems from your perspetive, but I also disagree.
If you say so then yeah, but clearly you have your own biases.
I don't think there is any point in explaining further becuase you are unable to see what you did wrong, your own projections and how your biases created this cult like behavior and almost manipulative behavior where you get triggered.
I may have shown that I got frustrated, but you tried to defend your cult and started discrediting me. If you don't realize that, there is nothing I can tell you except "sure, kid". Quite the ignorant person you are
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• 10m
I’m genuinely curious. How am I being ignorant?
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• 10m
I dont think we will get anywhere here. You are just here to try to defend your cult and make me seem like I am an emotional person in the wrong although I am neutral and just observing your behavior and getting frustrated by it. This is called Gaslighting.
You seem like a classic gaslighter and manipulative person, or just simply brainwashed. Reminds me of David, once again
I dont think you can help me and I dont think you are a trustworthy individual to help me with my health.
I wish you the best regardless of this behavior Aleks.
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• 8m
You are not curious. I told you multiple times how you were ignorant and you just keep arguing and acting like I was being dumb.
this is the ignorant behavior in action.
Look back at the conversation. Take a deep breath. Ask some genuinly curious scientific people or just neutral people what they think.
They will see the pattern of ignorance, defending ideology and you getting offended early on and trying to discredit me becuase my health is bad.... When I told you about both sides ...
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• 7m
Another pattern is making short comments trying to act like you are in the right instead of adressing what I am saying in detail and paying attention and giving it enough respect to atleast listen to what I am saying.
Disrespectful behavior, gaslighting, manipulation. You have too little self awareness to see the pattern now, but one day you will
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• 6m
you’re not credible.
You stated that you followed a “Ray Peat” diet. And when I asked for proof, you started deflecting and jumping around.
I hope you find what you’re looking for, but I’m not the right person to help you. Especially when someone is very prideful.
You’re the one with health issues, not me.
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• 3m
I hope you come around and realise what the truth is. You remind me of FaceIQ, I use to have similar discussions with him.
And now he made the switch to Ray Peat.
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• 3m
Thank you for that. You are not credible either. You just discredited yourself and ignored me and then say that I deflected. this is classic ignorance, manipulation and gaslighting behavior.
I don't trust you, I don't want your help and I did not need it. I was open to see what it was all about but you clearly showed you and your ideology is not to trust and that it is just cult like behavior that, when questioned, leads to you acting ignorant and rude and then gaslighting me to f...
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• 2m
Yeah, both you and faceiq are dreaming right now. Its easy to believe when you are easily brainwashed and call it the "truth" with shaky arguments and people not he other side saying the same thing.
Your low self awareness and manipulative behavior is classic cult behavior.
I don't need your help and I don't trust you. You have shown me what kind of person you are.
You can keep making yourself feel better and give all these excuses and call it deflection and projection, but in the end you are the one projecting Aleks.
Not a trustworthy individual I must say
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• just now
I sent you a video which I made. With evidence on carnivore, it’s a 20minute + video, and after 2 minutes you replied and started discussing with me.
You’re not here for truth, you’re here to prove why carnivore works. And you started attacking this community.
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