So yesterday we had a talk at dinner. We started looking at why we behave the way we do and talking about how our childhoods have moulded us. I started feeling a bit more of a connection and ended up pushing too hard and made it all about myself. It didn't end well. I went to bed really analysing myself and have realised that my depression is much deeper than I had originally thought. I'm not the man I used to be. I've become grumpy, angry and am blaming everyone but myself. And then I realised how much she had been doing over the last few years to try and pull me out of it. I felt so guilty. I spoke to her about it this morning. As honestly as I could. We both broke down crying, she held my hand (first sign off any form of affection in months). She's still planning on leaving and I understand why. I've got a lot of work to do, starting with a GP appointment today (and I think I'm going to start surfing). I'm emotionally drained, petrified of what's around the corner but feel like I'm starting to see the real issues now.

I sensed Polly seems low and distant last night. We were both at the house for a few hours in the afternoon as it was my day with the kids but she had nowhere to go. After the kids went down I went to leave but said I noticed she was low and asked if she was ok. this lead to an almost 2 hour chat. It began with her saying she is having a bad day and feeling trapped at not being able to move forward with her finances and not having a space for her. She moved into relationship chat. The takeaways of it were she is still very strongly seeing separation as the only option, and there is no hint at reconciliation on the cards. She got into all the ways I had hurt her and not showed up like the man she thought she married. I wasn’t the calm stable rock she had initially married, but I had met her ups and down with my own. She said it was like having another child, and my emotional immaturity had lead her to feel like my Mum and that killed attraction. The lens she is viewing our entire marriage and relationship with is very dark, she can only see the negatives. When I mentioned some of the positives she just could not see them. She is dead clear that she needs to prioritize her needs now, and although she is recognizing the changes I am making, there wasn’t an ounce of hope given or reflection that the new me might ever have a place in her heart. She said ‘we will always be friends Dan, we get on’ but she didn’t wish for anything more. I know she is conflicted about how to move the separation forward and the guilt towards the kids, but I didn’t see any signs of her wavering on her decision. Just someone struggling with how to actually do it, practical and financially. I had misread recent signs of her softening and allowing me around more as her enjoying time with me and maybe starting to question herself, but I didn’t get that tonight, she seems as resolute as ever, and said those family moment had been hard for her. I tried to ask the Q again, what would a healthy version of this marriage look like if we were to reconcile? She said its a very hard question, and really struggled to put together a reply. But she said someone who was mature and calm and supported her and loved her. But I could see she was in psychological turmoil today, she couldnt view anything positive.

I've been thinking long and hard about this over the last few days and I would really appreciate everyone's opinions. Quick bit of background. 6 months ago my wife told me she didn't love me any more. Before then I had become depressed and quite grumpy mainly due to life just not panning out the way I had planned. She said that she had tried hard to work on the marriage but I was totally unaware there was an issue. We seemed really happy from my perspective. Since she told me I've done the usual logical approach, begged and been angry. Since finding @Mark Cox and this group it's helped me put a stop to that. I know that I have issues I need to work on. I didn't see the pain she was going through as I was blind to it. She has issues speaking her mind (she's very close to my family, best friends with my sister, and no one saw this coming) and I know that if she had said to me directly that she was starting to feel differently I would have moved heaven and earth to help her. I love her deeply. But I'm am starting to think that maybe I deserve better. I sincerely apologised for what I did and how that made her feel. I've done the work to understand how it happened, why she feels the way she does and told her that I'm willing and want to do the work. But she's not seeing it that way at all. Should I be fighting for someone where my word isn't enough? We built a life together, with 2 gorgeous boys, but she doesn't feel our life together is worth fighting for? I'd love to know your thoughts. Do I have a point or am I being selfish or deluded? No wrong opinions guys and I'd love to know your thoughts @Mark Cox

So this evening I've had a really unusual reaction to some really devastating news from my wife. After 6 months of me pushing and trying to convince her to give us another chance, she told me this evening that she's going to start the process of moving out. I kept calm (after reading Marks guide this morning) and did my best to ask questions and to be as supportive as I could. But by the time we sat down for dinner we were joking about it. Like the last 6 months of stress, pressure and unsaid emotions suddenly was out in the open. Don't get me wrong, I really don't want her to leave and part of me still believes that it won't actually happen. But the pure fact that she said it out loud and is adamant that it's the path she wants to go down I feel like I don't have to perform. I don't have to time me doing the laundry at a certain time so she sees me doing it or monitor her tone to see if she's warming to me. It's weirdly freeing.

So tonight I dropped my granddaughters car seat off after work as my wife needed it for tomorrow mornings drop off. Was barely any eye contact from her, but it was still a nice evening giving my oldest son his birthday presents, and we were all there and enjoyed the occasion, albeit I was on limited time in the sense that I was trying to just be there for the kids and get out the door as I had done everything I had set out to do with them. Then came “would you like to stay for dinner?” I hesitated…but then said I’d really love that, so I stayed. My wife and I ate in the garden together without the kids in earshot, and we spoke just about general stuff, the usual day to day. We laughed and we smiled at each other as if we both knew what was coming, and that was the chat about us…I said I was working on myself to be a better version of myself, and that work was great, therapy was going well and I mentioned I was really pushing myself to learn how to be a more accountable person and learn from my lessons. My youngest was out in the garden and we really didn’t have that deep a chat, but as I left I said “look, I respect your boundaries and the need for you to protect yourself, but you need to know that I am in love with you, infatuated by you and I still want you” left it at that, thanked her for dinner and left. Not gonna lie, I cried all the way home because of the pain I’m still experiencing. But felt like I managed to say what’s been on my mind and lift a weight, although in the flip side, I know on reflection how much pressure that may have put on her. But she was smiling when I left so I’ll take it as a positive for now. I’m not going to bring “us” up in any conversation and let her lead on that side, I’ve said my piece. There is so much messaging about the kids at the moment it is starting to feel overwhelming in that we are talking and getting on that knowing I can’t overstep those boundaries to move us on. Patience is a killer boys….and I have very little of it. But as my wife said tonight it’s still so raw, and has only been 5 weeks…..