@Nick Benger Oh! I also wanted to say… what pushed me to looking in to e-collar training was a trainer talking about how “no” can mean more freedom for the dog. I never thought about how limiting or even invasive training an alternative or incompatible behaviour could be in some circumstances. It’s so obvious yet it clicked when he said it (in a more eloquent way than me). We’ve had some scenarios in our lifestyle combined with my Aussie’s need for movement, lead to me getting an e-collar and investing in training. The biggest thing is that the pros far outweigh the cons. His quality of life will greatly increase.