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Owned by Draven

Rock Singing Success

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#1 place for rock and metal singers. Free resources, community, and courses for your singing and career. 🎤

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321 contributions to Rock Singing Success
A study of Crawl Away by Tool
Over the past month or more I've been working on a study of sorts trying to get down the vocals for Crawl Away by Tool. It seemed like a good piece because there are long, drawn-out notes with heavier grit. I think I've gotten it to a place I'm satisfied with, although I probably am actually using more distortion than he does in the song. But I figured, hey, it is the skill I'm trying to learn so I may as well step it up a notch. This recording is after countless takes to get the very best ones, granted I was learning the more aggressive stuff more or less from scratch over that time. This is the vocals only, so I uploaded it to SoundCloud so you can see the waveform and skip over the silent parts. It was recorded through a compressor but otherwise it's completely dry. https://soundcloud.com/to_the_sun/crawl-away-a-cappella
0 likes • 17h
This was a good attempt, as long as you're not shouting. I'm a little concerned with it sounding like your voice is moving a lot, and almost shouting for distortion. This often results in lack of control causing more unnecessary compression, pushing/shouting, grinding, and a cross between an overlay distortion (compressed to uncompressed bleeding air through the glottis) and a epiglottic distortion like a blues growl. I would be happy to go over this with you. There are a lot of foundational things that you're not balancing, making you overcompensate and cause other issues. In the end, those high pitched grit moments should feel more like over-crying or opening to a yawn, using the shape rather than forcing it.
Can You Get Grit Without Using A Hyoid Pull?
I've learned a lot about the hyoid pull in this community and it definitely works, but I am kind of getting the idea that it is impossible to create distortion without a hyoid pull when actually, you are the first coach I've seen mention a hyoid pull. I read Raise Your Voice by Jamie Vendera. I saw no mention of a hyoid pull or anything similar in the book. Yet other coaches get their grit with twang instead, such as CVT certified coach Mateus Sibila, who demonstrates how to create grit only using twang in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAugpkANBOc Instead of using a hyoid pull, he uses twang to create grit for singing. The thing I find appealing about this is that he says that in addition to creating grit, twang helps get rid of unwanted breathiness from our voice for singing or screaming. He elaborates: "Twang is created by narrowing the epiglottic funnel which amplifies and compresses the sound. Twang also helps to set the position of our throat, larynx, palate and tongue for getting a healthy distortion to scream and sing with rasp. Examples of bands are Guns N' Roses, Alice In Chains, Godsmack and many others including Metallica." Finally, Aliki Katriou says that Kargyraa is her favorite way to create false fold distortion, since unlike the other two ways, it is direct - not passive. She likes that the main pro of Kargyraa is it gives you the most muscular control and says the main downside to it is the pitch range you're able to achieve with it.
1 like • 3d
I'll warn you ahead of time, this answer will be very long. The main confusion I see happening is in confusing different methodologies/pedagogies. In order to answer your question in full, I need to describe the different methodologies, including my own. First, to answer you directly about this video... What he's doing in the video relates directly to what I often describe as a more compressed, "in the mouth" distortion, which has more more twangy, forward placement, resulting in harsher, grittier sounds. The more compressed end of the distortion spectrum is used most often in the lower range where the folds are more loose and need compression to stabilize. Hetfield's rattle is a good example of this being sustained. Jagger's grunt is a good example of this as an onset. The most common distortion sounds come from the more uncompressed end of the spectrum and feel more open in the back, resulting in a smoother sound. The exception is on higher pitches that already have natural compression form the pitch alone, where the surface area to have a more compressed sound comes from stretching the vocal tract like a rubber band from a top-down, more yawn-like, crown of the head focus for acoustics, to the "hyoid pull" of the whine, sob, or larynx dampening side of cry. Since what I'm certified in and teach is more of a mix of CVT for acoustics and Estill (EVT) for physical shaping the vocal tract/filter, allow me to break this down a bit more... *** Twang in CVT is when "the opening of the epiglottic funnel is made smaller by bringing the arytenoid cartilages closer to the lower part of epiglottis." The more extreme of this is a sharp cackle-like sound, or more /ae/ ("ash) overtones. They separate this into Necessary Twang, which is essential for shooting the voice up and out for singing, and Distinct Twang, which is more squeezed (hyper-twang in my terminology) and narrow. In CVT context, the narrowing can be used to cover the true folds with the false folds, activating distortion in the false cords. The acoustic mode then dictates the type/sound of distortion. An edgy placement would be the more compressed and harsher end of the spectrum, like in the video. A curbing placement would result in a more smooth distortion from a slightly dampened larynx, but using their description of twang to narrow the vocal tract in order to activate the false folds.
1 like • 17h
@Kenny Kendall I hear more constriction and compression in Halford's voice, for sure. You're on the right track with how you're thinking here. "velum" and "aryepiglottic sphincter control": Soft palate and Twang or narrowing the vocal tract. I've been working with two of the teachers I trained for a long, searchable video that goes through about 60 different singers, from ordered from light rasp all the way to the most extreme false cord screams. There's a lot going on, but that is definitely in the pipeline.
The Roar, the Road and the Reality of the Rock Life.
I’ve spent enough time around amplifiers and stage lights to know one thing for sure: Rock and Metal ain't just genres they’re a survival kit. It’s where we scream so the world can hear our healing, and where we turn our struggles into a symphony that shakes the rafters. But as any old road dog will tell you, having the fire in your belly ain't enough if you don't have the technique in your throat and the business in your head. That’s why I’m looking at the Rock Singing Success Team with a lot of respect. It’s rare to find a place that respects both the Craft and the Life. Most folks want the Rockstar dream, but they don't want the vocal scales or the tour routing that makes it a reality. You gotta protect the instrument to keep the dream alive. I want to hear from the vocalists and the heavy hitters in this circle: 1. The Craft: What’s the one note or technique that’s been kicking your tail lately? 2. The Life: What’s the biggest road lesson you’ve learned about keeping a band together without losing your mind? Let’s get some real talk going. We're all under the same roof here.
0 likes • 17h
Thanks for the compliment! Most people here aren't trying to build a career out of music, although there are a few. My own career has taken many turns over the last 30 years, in this order: - Various house bands for years - A rather large rock band for a few (that signed with John Elefante's label, from the band Kansas) - Another house band and another rock band opening smaller national shows - I started running a recording studio and working as a freelance engineer - I coached bands in their careers with a high-profile artist - I started another band that put on some amazing, profitable events - I started teaching rock and meta vocal techniques, which also involved a LOT of study - I'm now getting back into my own music and... - I'm in the process of joining some major label players again 1. The Craft: What’s the one note or technique that’s been kicking your tail lately? Getting my chops back up for live. It takes consistent training specifically geared for both relaxed technique and longevity/endurance. 2. The Life: What’s the biggest road lesson you’ve learned about keeping a band together without losing your mind? Let the visionary be the visionary. Support them, look for ways to further their vision, and make sure they have all the tool and resources they need to lead the charge.
0 likes • 3d
While I can't fully speak to it without knowing exactly what you're feeling when doing this, what it sounds like you're doing if the more compressed side of distortion. Your placement for resonance is more nasal or "in the nose" rather than just twangy or "in the mouth" /ae/-ishness, the distortion production part sounds correct. As you go higher in pitch, you might feel it's necessary to over-cry and open the throat a bit to relieve the compression so that it doesn't grind. I go into a LOT of written detail on this in my reply to this post about grit and hyoid pull, where the video in the initial post is very similar to what you're doing. But I offer that as a study. Don't get overwhelmed in information about the voice though. Get obsessed with cry vocal mode as your base for singing, twang for helping you place your main sound color, and then the sensations around how shaping your vocal tract produces different sound colors. *** Here are the important distortion-related parts of my reply to that post... ... A more compressed, "in the mouth" distortion, which has more more twangy, forward placement, resulting in harsher, grittier sounds. The more compressed end of the distortion spectrum is used most often in the lower range where the folds are more loose and need compression to stabilize. Hetfield's rattle is a good example of this being sustained. Jagger's grunt is a good example of this as an onset. The most common distortion sounds come from the more uncompressed end of the spectrum and feel more open in the back, resulting in a smoother sound. The exception is on higher pitches that already have natural compression form the pitch alone, where the surface area to have a more compressed sound comes from stretching the vocal tract like a rubber band from a top-down, more yawn-like, crown of the head focus for acoustics, to the "hyoid pull" of the whine, sob, or larynx dampening side of cry.
Can't unlock mixed voice
Hi, I'm new here so I'm still a bit shy. I need a lot of help with mixed voice because I cannot seem to figure it out even though I'm spending all of my patience and energy behind it. Is there any vocal teacher/coach who can come on a call for just 15 mins and teach me some of the things without any money please? I cannot pay even a single dollar behind this as I am too young and I really just need some guidance and advice for it. I've tried youtube and taking advice from random people online but it doesn't really work unless there's someone pinpointing my mistakes and telling me how to correct them. Learning by myself has also created some confusions that I need to get rid of immediately. Somebody help please 🙏🏻🙏🏻
2 likes • 7d
Watch the first few videos in the free training vault and then search for posts about cry in the community and start learning. There's a lot here for you that isn't like freebie youtube videos. I like to teach in my videos, and truly help in the comments here. One-on-one lessons cost because I have to set aside specific time for it, and issues you're talking about require evaluation and customized training routines to build the voice you want. There's no quick fix when you're talking about coordination and strength building. I don't mind answering here when I have time though, where it benefits everyone. But for truly building your voice, it will take time and guidance customized to your specific situation. That requires lessons and training. I'm about to get very technical so you understand the different parts of your singing voice that need worked on in order to make your entire voice one-voice, all of it a mix, rather than a stark separation of registers. You're building fine motor skills of multiple muscle groups you're not used to using in this way. We're used to speech mode. Singing is more about cry and twang, which I will get into here. I'll sum it up at the end. Mix is having control over lift and head voice resonance first. If you can't sing it in light, pure head voice, it will be difficult to try and mix chest voice resonance into your head voice resonance. The biggest issue most run into is approaching too much from the bottom-up like trying to add head voice to speech; resulting in too much muscle and often just yelling. Singing is top-down, starting in lifted head voice resonance and shaping the sound below it. This lift, top-down whimper, or "towards a yawn" feel is the first part of learning command and control of the cry reflex, which IS singing. Your singing voice is a balance of cry and twang. I describe cry mode often here, or rather a top-down whimper and sob often resulting in more /ah/-ish overtones. Besides that top-down whimper that thins the vocal folds and amplifies head resonance, Sob is a sight dampening of the larynx you might feel as a slight/gentle pull in the front of the throat above the larynx when you make a whiny voice. (not dopey, but whiny). This gives you more surface area in the folds without over-flexing the TA "chest voice muscles" responsible for thickening the vocal folds.
2 likes • 7d
@Kenny Kendall Twang creates more compression. Distortion comes from from adding air and constricting the vocal tract (hyoid pull or lots of whimper). Distortion is on a spectrum from compressed to uncompressed. harsh to smooth. More compressed/harsher distortion below G4 is often easier to get with more twang. More compressed/harsher distortion above G4 is often easier with more cry, especially lift towards a yawn to stretch and constrict the vocal tract without flexing into compression.
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Draven Grey
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@draven-grey-6980
Over 30 years as a professional recording and performing musician, music career coach, rock singing coach, recording engineer, and storyteller.

Active 3h ago
Joined Jan 6, 2024
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